Exclusive: Zelenskyy on Ukraine-Japan ties and more

Exclusive: Zelenskyy on Ukraine-Japan ties and more Japan's Lower House Speaker Mori Eisuke recently gave an address to Ukraine's parliament. The next day, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sat down for an exclusive interview with NHK. He candidly discussed Russia's invasion, defense ties with Tokyo, North Korea's "cheap" learning experience, and why China could do more to foster peace.

This interview took place in Kyiv on September 16. The following comments have been edited for clarity.

Q1How do you evaluate Japan's support for Ukraine? Tokyo has significant restrictions on the defense-related assistance your country needs.

A1Yesterday we had a conversation with your speaker, and really we have good relations with him and some parliamentarians from the very beginning of the full-scale invasion. They've been on our side, and your society has been on our side. We are very thankful to Japan, and to all governments during this period. It was very important that the speaker, with different parliamentarians, gave this message in parliament that they will stay on the side of truce, on the side of Ukraine, supporting our territorial integrity and sovereignty.

We are very thankful, and we never forget. I gave orders of merits to the speaker and some of his colleagues. We really value everything they did at the very beginning of the war, when Ukraine felt like we may face such a struggle alone. It was my privilege to invite the speaker and his colleagues.We spoke also with your prime minister during the G7 meeting in France. And I was very grateful for your financial humanitarian support. And the energy support was very important. Going through such difficult winters, and having such strong partners, among them Japan. But of course, we wanted very much to build mil-tech cooperation between our nations. We do have trade between our countries, about 1 billion. It's not too much. I think we can increase it, especially if we focus on the defense industry.

I understand that there are some differences between our laws. But I think when we speak about defense, all nations are very interested. There are no neutral nations. You can sometimes not have a big army, but you still need a huge defense sector for monitoring of the sea, monitoring of the borders. It's intelligence drones, demining drones, not only weapons. And of course, air defenses.And I think now you see a lot of cyberattacks. We have a strong system, not because we are more talented than Japan. There are clever people in both nations, and you have huge technologies. But we are now in a war, and that's why we focus on such things.That's why I think we can be useful for each other. Of course, we need air defenses. I'm open for this, and we wanted to have a drone deal. Maybe you will need some drones: sea drones, etc. Of course it is up to your nation to choose what and what not to have. What is critical for us? I think stronger relations between private sectors, between governments, and to look at technology. We are open for energy and humanitarian support, and agricultural food security.

Q2US envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner recently visited Kyiv. This past year, they have made various suggestions for a ceasefire such as the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from the border, including the Donetsk region; a reduction of Ukrainian military forces; and presidential elections. What conditions did they present to you?

A2First of all we didn't speak about all those details. The goal of Russia is to occupy us. I think there is a difference in understanding whereby the Americans think Russia wants to occupy Donbas, and that's all. It's our estimation that they want to occupy all of us, and not only us. Yes, this is a difference in understanding of Putin’s goals. That's why we start from different positions to speak about any kind of territory. Because we speak from the point of security for our country, to save people and save independence, even when we have temporarily occupied territories, we move this question maybe to the diplomacy sector because we will not have so many losses, and this is the key: not to have too much losses, not to have losses at all between us. To stop the war, stop the killing.

And between us, if Putin doesn't understand, I think that there are people around him who understood already that they have to stop the aggression. They have to stop the war. Too many losses. So this is first.The second point, we spoke about how to find a compromise to end the war. So compromises, you know, you can find compromise in each step because you have challenges each day. Now the agricultural corridor is blocked from both sides. They blocked us. We responded successfully. We are not happy, but we have to show our power, because Putin doesn't understand weak words. It's about strong answers.Of course we need agricultural products for other nations, Africa, Asia, even Europe. They don't have such big deficits. But they will, because if 30 million tons will not go from Ukraine; if 50, 60 million tons will not go from Russia by sea, it means huge challenges for Africa, Asia, the Middle East, different countries. If we decide to open for these ships, to save people, yes I think it's a part of de-escalation. When we speak, not to attack energy sectors on both sides, I said from the very beginning, if they will not attack our energy sector. If we will not have blackouts, Russians will also not have blackouts.Is it a compromise? Yes, it's a compromise. But if we want to speak about territories, we have to speak directly, because it's his goal to take all of us, and it's my goal to deoccupy my territory. That's why we need to speak to each other. I don't see that they are ready. I mean, we are ready. I underlined this several times. So that's shortly what we discuss about how to shortage or how to decrease the number of our soldiers. It's up to us. It's our position, and Americans didn't speak this time about how to make our army smaller because they understood that we need real security guarantees.

The first point in this list of security guarantees is our Ukrainian army, and it's our national choice. What number to have? I'm not asking Russia to have two times or three times less. It's up to them how to militarize their country. Of course, we are against it when they do, when they militarized Crimea or parts of eastern parts of Ukraine, which are small, which are already occupied and have been occupied from 2014.Of course, we are against such things, but it's in their hands now. So they can speak about only their territory, Russian territory. It's been about their soldiers, but they can't move our army to divide or something else. That's why I don't speak about it with the Americans. At the very beginning of our negotiations, of course this topic was raised because Russia pushed this message. We spoke several times with the Americans, and they understood that I mean this. It's not a topic I want to discuss, and I will not make a deal on this topic. It's only up to us. It's also for the people, who pay taxes and want to live in security. That's why, after this aggression, starting in 2014 and after almost five years of full-scale war, nobody wants a small army in Ukraine.So are the conditions presented by the US envoys acceptable to Ukraine? Now we spoke about many kinds of steps of de-escalation. By the way, they didn't speak about elections. They don't raise this topic because they understand that during the war we can't do it. Between us, the question of elections came from Russia. It moved from Russia to the White House and then somewhere through the media, etc. But again it's a question of security, that's all.When the war stops, everything will be done. And there are some moments which we discussed, but we decided not to go to the media before they raise these ideas with both sides. I know that they speak about it, and as I understood, President Trump had a conversation with Putin, and I don't know all the details. I count that I will have the opportunity to meet the president of the United States, and our groups decided that we have to meet and to speak about some points.

Q3You have repeatedly warned Japan and South Korea about the threat posed by North Korea, which is fighting alongside Russia. Could you provide an update on the latest situation with North Korea's involvement? What kind of operations do they conduct near the Ukraine border, and how serious a risk do they pose to Ukraine?

A3I think it's not even about Ukraine. I think it's more about the security of your region, because the operation has already been done. I think the smart operation when North Koreans sent people for today… By the way, from 30,000 to 50,000, they decided to send, and I think it was quite a successful operation because Russia allowed them to learn about war without big losses, and of course to learn this subject, to train in a real war. Not digitally, but in real life.

It's a big problem, because it was not expensive for North Korea just to send people, and they begin to learn modern war, where they can do it for today, only here, and that's why I said I think the operation has already been done by sending, learning, and going back. This is the best way, not too much losses. They had losses when they decided to fight directly with us during the Kursk operation, etc. But then they decided, I think, not to move to our territory because they will have a lot of losses. They have learned, seen the drones, drone operators. They work with them. They train with them. Look, it's a cheap price for such an experience. This is what has been done.

Q4Ukraine is currently unable to effectively intercept high-speed drones. The Ukrainian military has analyzed that the jet engine enabling to drones high speed are Chinese made. What are your thoughts on this?

A4China is not alone in this. There are some details from China in the ballistic missiles of Russia, in cruise missiles, in jets, jet drones, drones. China is a big economy and they have a huge market, which is open for Russia. But to be honest, it's not only China. There are several European countries. There is the United States' private sector. They didn't sell directly to Russians, but through other countries. That's why this is a problem, in any way Chinese support is a problem in a big country big economy yes and of course, especially with drones, with cheap details for drones. They've got different technologies from Iranians, and they've got some technologies from China. I mean, Russians. It's a way of this life.

When I spoke with the leader of China by phone during this war, he said to me that they didn't sell weapons directly to Russia. I saw North Korean production in Ukraine. It's not just details; it's a real weapon, artillery rounds, missiles and other things. I didn't see a Chinese missile, but I know the technologies go in there. Then this machinery, they came from China. I think some engineers, some smart people with technology, because you don't need just technology, you need people… I think such support was from the Chinese side.But in any ways, I don't see, for example, China pushing Russia to stop the war. I never saw it. Maybe they have conversations, bilateral meetings. But I think they have huge influence on Russia, especially now when there are a lot of sanctions: shadow fleet, energy, the banking system. Of course China can manage how to push Putin for negotiations. But they didn't do it. And if you can but don't, is that support or not? That is the question: If you can stop somebody, and you know they are killing, and you are just looking.

Q5Ukraine is intensifying its long-range attacks on energy facilities and logistics infrastructure within Russia. What impact are these attacks expected to have in the context of ceasefire negotiations with Russia? And what are Ukraine's next targets for these long-range strikes?

A5Jet drones from Russia is a new page in this war. A really new speed, new technologies, new format. Of course it's a challenge for us. We have to be honest. We have great companies, and this is something new with these jet drones, and they can go to eight kilometers, or very low altitudes. We have interceptors already. We don't have a huge production of jet interceptors for this speed. We have several already, but not massive production. Now we are testing, and we have the results. With our weapons, we destroy 90-plus percent of different drones. It could be higher, but only 45% of jet drones were destroyed. We need some time. So we found already some projects, Ukrainian projects of our production, and of course we will increase the number. When our guys will be ready for such massive production, we will destroy these also. But you know, that is the problem with war. In parallel, we will find new methods on how to respond, and after our new methods, Russia will find something new, and after that we will find something new. This is a foolish competition. But that's why for us it's not a competition. We are defending, and Russia is trying to be competitive. No, they try to win, and they can't win.And the estimation of even the people around him, who said really that some somebody is trying like from generals, all generals from Soviet people, they tried to tell him that they need two, three months, and they will occupy Donbas. No, it's not true. I know that some people who are a little bit younger, they said that for the occupation of Donbas, if it's possible, he will need an additional 1 million people and 2 years.

And this is, you know, I mean, this is a foolish decision. To have so many losses, for what? Why I want to explain why I don't trust, and why such a difference between my position and American position? Because if he said only about Donbas. If he said about this part of our territory that he needs only this, the question is, for what? He has the biggest land in the world, where there are no lights, nothing for people. People live like in the 17th century, in a big part of Russia. He doesn't have money for such huge territory to make it technological modern, people happy. You know, so for what he needs a piece of this part. This is the answer. Answer is very simple. No, he doesn't need only these. He needs these, and then other goal, and then other goal. Only when you have strong position, strong security guarantees, army technologies partners, fundings, strong nation. In such case, he can understand that he not yet ready, and maybe the pause, and maybe this pause will be longer than his life, really, and maybe next generations of Russian politicians maybe they will, I mean, try to change their place in the history. I don't know. That's why sometimes to sometimes steps of escalation can be helpful.

Q6I would like to know more about your views on China, which seems to present a neutral position while clearly supporting Russia economically and militarily.

A6It's a pity that China is not on our side in this war. Politically, even if it's not about weapons. It's about political will. And it's a pity because this war can be started and stopped immediately by strong leaders, including China. They are a little bit more with Russia, and for them to be a little bit, I mean, not just giving weapons directly, but being more open than to us, more helpful than to us, for such a big country, a little is a lot.

They have huge influence in today's situation, and that's why the United States, China, they have different positions on many things, especially the economy, etc. But they always said they support the territorial integrity and sovereignty of any country. So why not in this case? It means that when we hear big leaders supporting territorial integrity and sovereignty, they speak about themselves, not about all others.