Facing a super El Niño, this scientist says we can look to the past for climate solutions

Rosa Vásquez Espinoza is a Peruvian scientist of Indigenous descent. She's leads an organization called Amazon Research Internacional, which brings together modern science with ancestral Indigenous knowledge to address climate change, regenerate rainforests and support communities. (Amazon Research Internacional)Social SharingLISTEN | What you can learn from El Niño:What on Earth?25:02Is this Super El Niño a peek into forever weather?A Peruvian researcher has turned to her ancestors' solutions to extreme weather events and climate change — and she’s not the only one.

As head of the non-profit Amazon Research Internacional, Rosa Vásquez Espinoza helps unite traditional Indigenous knowledge and modern science to mitigate climate change, regenerate fragile ecosystems and support communities.

“There’s so much space and need right now to look into our past,” the scientist said. “Into our ancestral civilization — Indigenous populations — and how they have already figured out systems to deal with these different changes in the climate and in the ocean patterns.”

And right now, her country is facing what could be the most devastating El Niño ever.

The government of Peru has declared a state of emergency due to heavy, unseasonal rains linked to El Niño, but even before that Espinoza sensed things would be different.

“This is the first winter period where it’s actually been really, really hot, almost without any difference as to the summer time,” she told What on Earth? host Johanna Wagstaffe.

“Having just really intense heat, non-stop, throughout all of these different microclimates, it definitely signals that something is off.”

El Niño is a natural phenomenon where the Pacific Ocean warms due to a disruption in trade winds, which blow east-to-west around the equator. It can cause intense rains and droughts across Latin America, including in areas that wouldn’t otherwise see them. The World ‌Meteorological Organization has warned that this year’s El Niño could be the strongest since the agency began monitoring the weather phenomenon. Espinoza is concerned about it causing everything from droughts and flooding to a rise in mosquito-borne diseases and disruption to food.

Facing a troubling future, Espinoza is hopeful she can look to history to provide answers.

It’s a cause that’s personal for Espinoza — she is of Indigenous descent with both Andean and Amazonian roots. Her maternal side comes from a small Andean town named after the Chasquis, who were the messengers of the Inca Empire.

And archeological evidence suggests the Incas could have important messages about weathering El Niño and climate change today.

A 2025 study found evidence that just under a thousand years ago, during a warming period called the Medieval Climate Anomaly, the Incan communities in the Andes adapted. They moved higher into the mountains, constructed sophisticated terraces and irrigation systems and planted trees that made the soil more fertile. And they relied on other resources — like llamas and alpacas — to make the system work.

“Together, these practices stabilized soils, reduced erosion, and allowed large populations to thrive in the Andes,” Alex Chepstow-Lusty, a co-author on the study, wrote in The Conversation. He added that the Spanish upended the system when they arrived in the 16th century.

“This isn’t a simple story in which the Inca were perfect for the environment and the Spaniards entirely negative, but there are clear lessons to be learned,” he writes.

An Andean man blows a flute next to Inca terraces at the archaeological site of Pisac in Cusco, Feb. 16, 2010. Researchers say such terraces allowed the Inca to work with water and build a resilient food supply. (Enrique Castro-Mendivil/Reuters)Espinoza points to the terrace and irrigation systems in particular as having important lessons for both Peru and other countries, given the flooding that’s already happened due to El Niño — and is expected to continue. 

“I think I have definitely come to learn from my own Indigenous lineage the water control, and the idea and the concept of working with water, not imposing over water,” she said. “I think that is something that our current systems, globally, have kind of forgotten.” 

The Incas also had knowledge of crop diversity, Espinoza added, allowing them to plant crops at different altitudes, which made their food supply more resilient against various weather events.

A tourist rests while sitting on terraces at Machu Picchu in Cusco, Peru, on Aug. 12, 2015. The arrival of the Spanish upended the Inca's agricultural methods. (Pilar Olivares/Reuters)While this kind of ancestral knowledge hasn’t made it into many classrooms and textbooks yet, she said it’s slowly getting taken more seriously.

“I am seeing that more openly and more spoken about and less taken to the side as, you know, a practice that is outdated,” she said.

She notes there are lessons to be learned from Indigenous communities in the Arctic as well. 

“When we pair the traditional knowledge of local communities … while also making the best use of satellite and modern science, we really have a much deeper level of understanding.”

Myrle Ballard has been working on that effort in Canada. 

In 2022, she became the first director of Environment and Climate Change Canada’s Indigenous Science Division, a position she held for two years. She’s continuing her work as an associate professor and Canada Research Chair in the University of Calgary’s Faculty of Science.

Ballard is Anishinaabe from Lake St. Martin First Nation in Manitoba. The traditional name for her community is “Obashkodeyaang,” which translates to “There’s prairie where the buffalo live.” She says the name is data for understanding conservation and environmental change.

“If you were to go there now, to my community, it’s not prairie, there’s no buffalo — so what happened along the way?” she asked.

University of Calgary associate professor Myrle Ballard at a COP28 panel in Dubai in 2023. Ballard, the first director of Environment and Climate Change Canada's Indigenous Science Division, says Indigenous science is gaining more recognition around the world. (Kyle Bakx/CBC)In Canada, Indigenous peoples and their ancestors have traditional knowledge about how to handle another offshoot of climate change: wildfires.

Wildfire season has increased in most parts of the country, according to a recent government report. Not only has climate change made fires worse, a new study reports wildfires are speeding up climate change itself.

But Indigenous peoples have long fought fight fire with fire — literally. They used low intensity burns that would reduce forest density and create conditions for healthy rejuvenation, making higher-intensity fires less likely.

Controlled burning is still done in Canada, but it’s heavily restricted. Some analysts argue the practice is underused today. 

Ballard would like to see that change, and have the practice restored in Indigenous communities.

(Sködt McNalty/CBC) (Sködt McNalty/CBC) With the policies in place, we’re not allowed to have controlled burning anymore,” she said.

“This results in forests being like a tinderbox — anything strikes, or lightning, whatever, or even ATVs, they have sparks. So whatever the cause may be, human or natural, it’s like a tinderbox and they just explode.”

Ballard said she is optimistic that Indigenous science and traditional knowledge will become more integrated into Western scientific practices and policies.

“There’s a bit of reluctance among Western scientists, of course, because they think they’re the ultimate source of knowledge,” she said.

“But it’s being accepted even at the international levels.”

Richard is a web writer with CBC News and an associate producer with CBC Radio. He's worked at CBC in London, Ont., Toronto, Windsor, Kitchener-Waterloo and Ottawa.

Interview with Rosa Vásquez Espinoza produced by Jennifer Wilson and Rachel Sanders. With files from Reuters